You said something earlier that I thought was very insightful. It’s not like turning on a switch. My initial reaction is, I don’t think any amount of self-taught is going to help you bootstrap yourself into it. I mean, vulnerability is an element of wisdom. And we don’t attain wisdom by flipping the switch or by reading some slogan, although I do like my slogans. I really do. You see how excited I got. I was like, conversation, not accusation. That’s awesome. We should post something on that one. I guess what I care about, Ron, is helping people make choices about whether they want to be, right? And I think making your point of view and how you’ve come to that point of view vulnerable, I do get what that’s scary. I’ve been in context where even though I’ve overcome a lot of that, working with a CEO and their team in a place where it feels like you’ve always got to be right, you feel a lot of pressure not to screw it up. So I feel scared about that, right? Even after working on this now for 30 years. But the thing that helps me do it, and even though there could potentially be negative consequences, I’m not saying it’s consequence free.
I’m not saying it’s risk free. I am not a polyana about this stuff. It comes with risks. It’s just that it’s so much worse if you don’t.
Yes.
That’s the thing. And we take people through this, like these exercises that we do. They have all these understandable reasons for not being vulnerable, candid, honest, authentic, whatever, insert word, because we’re all talking about the same thing with these words. But then they really don’t know what the downsides are of the avoidance behavior. And then when we have them take the directions, when they start realizing all the downsides for other people, the organization, the business, and themselves. They’re aware of this much of the downsides, and the downsides are this much. They have a holy moment. And then they’re like, Okay, I better learn how to do this. So I think my answer to you is it’s an appreciation of the downsides of the lack of it. Ron, go ahead, please. I’m sorry.
Yeah, what I’m hearing from you, Todd, is it’s going to cost you something if you do it or don’t do it. What are you willing to pay? Because it’s going to cost. It’s going to cost you if you do it and it may be uncomfortable, it may have some anxiety. But if you don’t do it, what’s the cost of not doing that? Like the space shuttle. I’m sure there are people that went back and looked at it and said, I wish I would have spoken up. I wish I would have been more candid. And so I will tell you that it’s going to cost us one way or the other. And if it costs me to get better, then I got to take some risk. And you never really get better without taking some risk. That’s just a part of the world. Of course.
You never know what the limits are until you break them.
Yeah, exactly. So I think that’s it. A couple of things I want to do before we wrap up for us here today. I mean, phenomenal conversation, But I know there’s some things that you and I want to do.
You got to pay the piper no matter what.
Yes.
You’re going to pay. It’s the question, but what I’ve seen now, 30 years, that the cost of avoidance so far exceeds the cost of engagement. It’s not even funny.
Yes.
You also miss the opportunity to have a life where you can thrive a lot more. Yes. Because when you throw yourself in the truth of things, it opens in the world for you, and it brings untapped potential inside of people out. And you never know who you could be unless you lean into the truth.
